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Dr. K. Norman Johnson, Chair

Oregon State University


Dr. James Agee

University of Washington


Dr. Robert Beschta

Oregon State University


Dr. Virginia Dale

Oak Ridge National Lab.

Oak Ridge, TN


Dr. Linda Hardesty

Washington State Univ.


Dr. James Long

Utah State University


Dr. Larry Nielsen

Pennsylvania State Univ.


Dr. Barry Noon

Colorado State University


Dr. Roger Sedjo

Resources for the Future

Washington, D.C.


Dr. Margaret Shannon

Maxwell School of Citizenship & Public Affairs

Syracuse, NY


Dr. Ronald Trosper

Northern Arizona Univ.


Charles Wilkinson

University of Colorado


Dr. Julia Wondolleck

University of Michigan



DATE: July 12, 1998


TO: The Committee of Scientists


FROM: K. Norman Johnson, Committee Chair


SUBJECT: Teleconference #2 Committee Meeting Notes



Enclosed are the notes from the second public teleconference call of the Committee of Scientists Federal Advisory Committee held June 24, 1998, from 11:00 am to 2:00 pm Eastern Daylight Time.


The purpose of the teleconference was to continue to discuss the committee's draft report to the Secretary of Agriculture and the Chief of the Forest Service. The public could participate on the telephone call at the Washington D.C. Office of the Forest Service and all regional offices of the Forest Service.


Enclosed you will find:

Attendance on June 24, 1998

Meeting minutes



Thank you for your participation in the meeting.






ATTENDEES continued

Dr. Norm Johnson, Chair

Region 2 -

Dr. Jim Agee

Chris Liggett, Forest Service

Dr. Virginia Dale

Geraldine Hughes, National Ski Area Assoc.

Dr. Jim Long

Region 3 -

Dr. Larry Nielsen

Art Briggs, Forest Service

Dr. Barry Noon

Cathy Dahms, Forest Service

Dr. Margaret Shannon

Region 4 -

Dr. Ron Trosper

Kathy Hauser, Forest Service

Charles Wilkinson, Prof. of Law

Region 5 -

Dr. Julia Wondolleck

Mike Srago, Forest Service


Region 6 -

Bob Cunningham, Designated Federal Official

Shandra Smith, Forest Service


William Connelly, Forest Service

Committee Staff Support

Region 8 -

Jonathan Stephens, USFS

Gary Pierson, Forest Service

Harriet Plumley, Forest Service

Robert Wilhelm, Forest Service


Region 9 -


Paul Monson, Forest Service

Washington, D.C., Office of Forest Service -

Region 10 -

Seona Brown, Forest Service

Tavia Hollenkamp, Forest Service

Mark Delfs, Forest Service


Harv Forsgren, Forest Service


Casey Giffen, Forest Service


Bob Bierer, AFPA


Jim Loesel, Citizens Task Force


Jean Loesel, Citizens Task Force


Niel Lawrence, Nat. Res. Defense Council


Elaine Suriano, EPA


Mary Munson, Defenders of Wildlife


Region 1 -


Doug Glevanik, Forest Service


John Hossack, Intermtn. For. Indust. Assoc.





Minutes of June 24th Teleconference Call with Committee of Scientists


Meeting with Secretary of Agriculture


Dr. Johnson discussed with the committee the tentative date of July 17th for the committee to meet with Secretary of Agriculture, Dan Glickman, to discuss the report and recommendations of the committee. The committee intends to also brief Under Secretary Jim Lyons and the Chief of the Forest Service Mike Dombeck, during that week.




The committee established two sub-committees: Ecological Sustainability; and, Economic and Social Sustainability. These sub-committees will report back to the full committee on the July 8 telephone conference call.


Discussion of Indian Tribal Rights


Dr. Ron Trosper led a discussion on the importance of Indian tribal rights. The committee believes that these rights need to be explicitly recognized in the Forest Service planning process. There was also a discussion about the Hispanic land grants in the Southwest. The committee recognized that there was a different legal and historical relationship between Indian tribal rights and Hispanic land grants.


Discussion of Suitability of Land for Resource Management


Dr. Norm Johnson led a discussion about a proposed new section for Chapter 3, which would address the need to identify and map the suitability of lands for more resource management. Resources to be included might be grazing, recreation, mining (leasable minerals), Wilderness, and special forest products. The Committee suggested that the resources selected for analysis be chosen during the planning process, rather being required in all plans.


There was a suggestion to develop a separate section in the report on grazing. This section might include a discussion of the process used by BLM that sets national standards for rangeland health. Alternatively, range suitability analysis might be better addressed as part of biological assessments.


Committee Discussion with Jim Loesel of Citizen's Task Force


The committee invited Jim Loesel of the Citizen's Task Force to discuss his experiences in planning with the Forest Service, particularly the Southern Appalachian Assessment(SAA). Mr. Loesel has extensive experience as a citizen working with George Washington/ Jefferson National Forests in Virginia. He discussed the importance of having all parts of the Forest Service involved in developing the assessment--District; Forest and Region. He thought that the SAA example could not be replicated across the country. Each assessment has to address its own set of issues and concerns.


Comparison of Current Planning Process and Committee Proposal


Dr. Johnson described a chart that he developed to display the current planning process and the committee's proposal. There was a discussion of Regional Guides and assessments. The committee agrees that assessments should not be decision documents requiring NEPA. There was a general discussion by the committee with some regional planning directors about the proposed strategy on planning. The planners on the call had a number of comments about the concepts discussed in the committee's proposal. Some expressed concern about requiring the strategy to be applied consistently across different parts of the country, and about the time that might be taken during development of assessments if "current" data is not used. Others expressed concerns about the role of small landscape plans and the need to allow small individual projects, like special use permits, to be handled separately. There was also concern about how the amendment and revision processes would be handled in the proposed strategy.


A few members of the Committee agreed to work on revisions to Chapter 4 during the next several days and post a new version on the Web Page around June 29.